“Faith is believing in something when COMMON SENSE tells you not to” - Maureen O’Hara, Miracle on 34th Street

[…] A Matter of Faith - Julia Sweeney » This Summary is from an article posted at Atheist Perspective on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 CBS […]

In light of your resonance with Christopher Hitchens; which is to say, independent thought over mass delusion, I thought perhaps you might find this of interest: a stage play in which religion is put on trial, found guilty of crimes against humanity, and sentenced to die by crucifixion. “New Calvary” is only one act, 43 pages, and features Adam and Eve, a boy of twelve, the Girl from Ipanema, Saul (Paul), Moses, Cardinal Rodger Maroney, and the three major religions. Each of these is brought to the stand and properly rebuked with historical revelations. I don’t know how to get this to Mr. Hitchens, but perhaps you might like to read it.
Sincerely, Jonathon Burket

I love Julia Sweeney! Her best line was “OH MY GOD! THERE IS NO GOD!” I love that line!

Another fool has spoken…

The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good. Psalms 14:1

The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. Psalms 53:1

…and it is an idiot who quotes a folklore as though it’s reality in order to credential his personal philosophy of life based on nothing.

Greg:..”

…and it is an idiot who quotes a folklore as though it’s reality in order to credential his personal philosophy of life based on nothing.”

“

Greg. I agree with you totally. Lets get rid of folklore and personal philosophy. Thats why I got rid of ‘On The Origin of Species’.

John, your ignorance is breathtaking; hopefully for evolution you’re not breeding.

If religion had one bit of evidence that god even existed you’d still have all your work ahead of you to prove that “your god” is “the god”. If your religion or god is “right” then everyone else is wrong.

Your commitment that others are wrong is your arrogance of ignorance.

Yours is a life built on nothing; your sub-conscious knows it and it’s why your anger at the mere suggestion of god’s non-existence raises the ire; brings out the quotes; screams louder and louder to try and silence reason & logic.

The scam is a sham and we’re on to the game.

Greg:

On breeding. Too late. I already did it.

As said many times before, I’m not trying to convert any atheist or convince you that God does exist (He Does)…That is up to you. The evidence is there.

All I am doing is defending the many ridiculous anti-Christian and anti-God posts. I know atheists hate competition, especially intelligent ones.

If you read ‘On The Origin of Species’ then you know how un-scientific that ridiculous book is. Charles Darwin is an over-rated scientist. He became popular only because evolution is anti-creation. The amoeba to fish and then fish with feet and then apes and then man is highly laughable.

I know many parts of evolution is true. DNA recombines and genetic expression changes. But sorry, you were not once mice.

Anyway, take it easy. This is only a website where two sides can agree and or disagree. I know God exists and you say not. Ok.

Take your christian fakery elsewhere, if the webmaster wishes to rescind my membership, fine, I am completely and fully accountable for my actions, which is more than I can say for any person of any religious faction or ideology.

Either you are person who inherently would do good/be good in life, or you are not.

No book; no god; no jesus; nothing will give you that which you do not innately own as a character attribute.

Given this understanding, a person who claims actions, words, or deeds in the name of religion or god is the least moral in society as all actions are of a personal interest to gain favor, not because of natural humanity.

And, no, you have absolutely no evidence for god’s existence - you have rhetoric, quotes, and fairy tales but evidence is the least of what you have.

“look around you, that’s god at work”

“no, that’s science - correlation is not causation”

Greg:..”

Take your christian fakery elsewhere, if the webmaster wishes to rescind my membership, fine, I am completely and fully accountable for my actions…
“

“

Greg….Whoa…Take a deep breath. Go for a walk. Maybe stop by a pub. Maybe tell a poor ol Christian Old Lady that she can cross the street by herself.

I doubt that the Webmaster wants you to go; more like probably me. I read my posts and I definitely bring out the Love in You.

What does your atheism have to do with Jesus? Jesus existed, so can’t your atheism? If you can defend atheism and ‘extreme’ evolution, then good.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to show who Jesus claimed to be.

PS. I hope this post didn’t cause fire and brimstone. If so, then sorry. As the Beatles sang, ‘Good Day Sunshine’.

It’s interesting that it is always the wont of the religious to project their emotional reactions onto others. You can settle yourself, there’s no emotion on this side except laughter, nothing else would be worth investing.

You, like all religious, dodged my claim about inherent goodness and the humanity to do good, because upon any real reflection you know its truth.

If you agree then the existence of god is useless, as you would behave as you behave without him; if you disagree then you’re controlling, by what could otherwise be called, your sociopath and psychotic behavior in order to hide your true self from the world.

I can’t entertain any such nonsense from the likes of you, further. You don’t know what you’re talking about; your folklore about jesus or whomever is like reading a child’s book; all religious people subjugate their lives to a “daddy” figure and will not mature and grow up; be accountable for their choices in life and thereby, responsible.

Good luck, you’ll need it.

“

…Good luck, you’ll need it.”

“

Greg. Thank you. I know this came from the bottom of your heart.

PS. I usually give intelligent answers as soon as I receive an intelligent question.

See John, you reveal your inherent nature which is to take scurrilous swipes at those who would oppose you or those who challenge your beliefs.

Those of religion never miss an opportunity to attempt to insult others and reveal their anger and ire. It’s quite amazing and terribly entertaining.

Thanks for the laughter.

“

See John, you reveal your inherent nature which is to take scurrilous swipes at those who would oppose you or those who challenge your beliefs…Those of religion never miss an opportunity to attempt to insult others and reveal their anger and ire. It’s quite amazing and terribly entertaining…”

“

Greg. Sometimes we take life too seriously. Not all Christians are bad; neither are all atheists.

I truly believe Jesus is the Messiah and rose from the dead. This doesn’t make me bad, ignorant, stupid, naive, lame, off-the-wall, idiot, fairy-tale believer, pixie lover, non-scientific, moronic, Bush-lover, Hillary-hater, fable-believer, witch-burner, anti-nonbeliever, sociopathic, psychotic, excessive beer drinker, mind reader, anti-evolutionary, pro-inquisition, Heaven-lover, hell-promoter, Darwin-Hater, Falwell-Lover, science-denier, Pseudoscience-specialists, war-starter, peace-denier, on, and on, and on.

I believe in the after-life not from anti-science, but from real science and possibilities. Maybe we will meet in the afterlife. Take care.

“I truly believe Jesus is the Messiah and rose from the dead.”

Well, this just about says it all - I don’t think we should pursue this further…for your sake.

Here’s your challenge, check out this website:

http://godisimaginary.com/

I spent over 20 years immersed in religion and another researching, evaluating, placing religion under the microscope of reason and logic and reach obvious conclusions.

Let’s see if you spend any time at all really looking into other perspectives or if you’re just about your own narrow view of life, refuse to see any other ideas that don’t agree with your own, and unwilling to challenge your own beliefs - because that’s all they truly are - beliefs, - not real, not solid, full of contradictions, rationalizations and justifications.

How do you know what you think you know - establishing first principles is always worth doing. How do you know the earth is round? The same principles that you should apply to EVERYTHING else in life.

The challenge is on, let’s see if you’re noble enough and honest enough to take it.

“

Here’s your challenge, check out this website:

http://godisimaginary.com/

I spent over 20 years immersed in religion and another researching, evaluating, placing religion under the microscope of reason and logic and reach obvious conclusions.

Let’s see if you spend any time at all really looking into other perspectives or if you’re just about your own narrow view of life, refuse to see any other ideas that don’t agree with your own, and unwilling to challenge your own beliefs - because that’s all they truly are - beliefs, - not real, not solid, full of contradictions, rationalizations and justifications.

How do you know what you think you know - establishing first principles is always worth doing. How do you know the earth is round? The same principles that you should apply to EVERYTHING else in life.

The challenge is on, let’s see if you’re noble enough and honest enough to take it.”

“

Ok Greg. I’ll look at your challenge over the weekend and respond either Monday or Tuesday.

I’d do it today, but today is Friday. I’m about to go from work-mode and think-mode into beer-mode.

thanks for the link, Greg, that site really is a fine piece of work. This is a particularly fine page…
I really don’t think our friend John T. will be truly challenged by reading these pieces. His (very interesting) cognitive processing is way beyond (or possibly behind) rationalism, for him “truth” is what he “knows” and facts are whatever he can use to support his “truth”. He is a typical human being, I’m afraid. We are not nearly as smart as we like to think, and we all have our precious constructions of personal “truth”. I admire John T. for his willingness to display the irrational, emotional, nonsensical nature of ordinary human thought…

Greg:

I read the website about godisimaginary. I agree it was well written and it posted many good objections that bible believers sholud be able to answer. Many of them I can; some of them I cannot. At least for now.

His best premises were on Noahs Flood and his worst was on DNA and on the Resurrection.

If he is correct, then I want to see how a gene is formed from scratch. He claimed it was there, so I want to see it. I’m like him; seeing is believing. Also, I want to see the abiotic ocean where it all started. Also, the fossil that shows the fish with legs and the evolutionary tree where we all originated from. I agree with him; I want to see this evidence too. No magic allowed. No abracadabras, and no rabbits pulled out of a hat.

That is my problem. He knocks the bible for all of its magic; but he ignores the magic behind evolution.

Well, the best about science is that it’s rooted in the concepts of observations, hypothesis, data, outcomes, facts and theory.

Science seeks its own falsification, if a theory can be falsified then its no longer theory. However, if the data continues to show the theory is correct, then it holds.

What does the bible do? It authenticates itself. Notice what little, if any, scientific knowledge exits within it? Science, as powerful as we know it to be, can be found where in terms of breaking down DNA, or even knowing what DNA is all about.

No, this designer is not very efficient to have created human life that has had to evolve through some rather horrid conditions and developments. That alone should cause one to ponder.

I suggest you watch this video, with a scientist who happens to show the scientific evidence for the transitions that have been discovered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg&eurl=

Then I suggest you look up the latest discovery that was made in Canada espousing another important transitional fossil.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=45236de2-606d-412c-b0e5-6f973eff0d98&p=1

The problem with a “belief system” is that there is no evidence and in the face of evidence the “belief” goes unchanged; it’s like an alcoholic in denial.

Finally, what’s interesting about your claim to “wanting to see how a gene is formed” implies that if science can’t know at this point then some ancient book that has over 10,000 Greek versions and 5000+ Latin versions,all incomplete, altered and distorted, must have the answer by simply stating: god did it. Certainly you must see how this alone is not, most certainly not, evidence for the existence of a god; any god.

You are an atheist about every other god except your own - we all just go one god more.

John T. implies that there is magic connected with evolution.
John T., would you accept that evolution is an inevitability given conditions where there is variation within a population, and a competitive breeding environment? Is it possible that such a population can remain genetically unchanged, or will the pattern of individual success and failure within the population, acting over many generations, tend to fit the population better to the environmental challenges it has to meet?

Tom asked:..”

John T. implies that there is magic connected with evolution….John T., would you accept that evolution is an inevitability given conditions where there is variation within a population, and a competitive breeding environment? Is it possible that such a population can remain genetically unchanged, or will the pattern of individual success and failure within the population, acting over many generations, tend to fit the population better to the environmental challenges it has to meet?”

‘

The magic I’m refering to is Dr Damon’s comments that enzymes were not necessary for the reactions to have occurred. In other words, photosyntheis would have developed even without enzymes. So would have eyesight and hair color. This is evoluionary magic.

Yes there is variations in the code. Everytime a species mates there is a new variant developed. Yes the environment has influence on genetic expression. Natural selection and survival of the fittest do explain some parts of evolution. This part of evolution, scientists re correct.

You’re answering a different question, John T., perhaps you’d try again? I’m asking whether you accept the INEVITABILITY of evolutionary change given the starting conditions I suggest…

Tom:

Ok. I’ll try again. What you are asking me is if I accept the inevitability of evolution to occur where there is competitive breeding, diversity, and environmental pressures.

The answer is of course. Within species and microclimates you see evolution at work. When the environment changes, selection pressures also change and this will change the genetic outcome.

A classic example of this is changes in ecosystems due to weather changes of drought and excess moisture. I have never denied this reality of evolution.

I have doubted abiogenesis and DNA arising by chance. I believe we were created originally. After the creation event was done, many parts of evolutionary are true. Other than we were once amobaes, mice, monkeys, etc.

Greg said:…”

Well, the best about science is that it’s rooted in the concepts of observations, hypothesis, data, outcomes, facts and theory….Science seeks its own falsification….What does the bible do?….No, this designer is not very efficient…
like an alcoholic in denial…”

“

Greg. I haven’t watched the links provided, but I soon will.

The Bible is not a scientific textbook, although alot of things have been verified of what the Bible says, such as the Universe having a beginning in space, matter, and time. A lot of so-called biblical myths have been verified too such as the existence of Nebuchadnezzar, the land of Ur, the Philistines, Sodom and Gomarrah, and so forth.

God is Real, so the evidence left behind will be real too. Just because we don’t like his creation or his plan does not mean God does not exist. God does.

The scientific method can be used with or without acknowledging God. Bt this does not prove atheism. The beautiful Universe and the ingenuity of DNA for encoding is marvelous and show the possibility of a Designer. I believe this and atheists don’t. I think you are missing out. Take care and I’ll comment on your links.